extremely technical electrics question !!!

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extremely technical electrics question !!!

Berichtdoor schakal » Zo Dec 17, 2006 2:42 am

ok i am having a slight problem with the electrics side
of the conversion .
just to remind , the conversion is from a renault 9 1.7 CARBURETTOR
to renault 19 1.8 16v EFI ,as well as the running gear
i am swapping the whole lot of wiring from the donor 19
into the renault 9 .
but thinking about it for the last few days ,i checked the fuse box setups
of both cars and made some comparisons that raised a massive
question about the whole idea.

the problem is the fuse ratings for some of the electrical equipment in both cars .
here is an example ,
**RENAULT 19 EQUIPMENT AND RATINGS FOR THE
SPECIFIC FUSES ARE IN BOLD**



R9
* REAR DEMISTER ------------ 20A

R19
-sunroof/ trip comp/ REAR DEMISTER 20A


R9
*WINDSCREEN WIPER/WASHER ----- 10A

R19
WINDSCREEN WIPER WASHER 15A

R9
*REVERSING LIGHTS/
WINDSCREEN WIPER TIMER ------- 7.5A

R19
-WINDSCREEN WIPER TIMER 10A
-cigar lighter/REVERSING LAMPS 15A



as seen, some of the fuses have different ratings for the same equipment in both cars
and there are quite big amp. differences in places .
my plan was to use the renault 19 fuse box as is attached to the dashboard wiring and is compatible with the rest of the renault 19 wires/connectors but now it feels quite
dangerous using high amp fuses for renault 9 equipment .
unless i go along trying to swap the entire renault 19 equipment on to renault 9
(headlights ,heater fan ,window winder motors etc .. most will be almost impossible )

or go checking every single renault 9 equipment ,fitting them the right rated
fuses (which will require a lot of skill and patience as some fuses control more than one equipment )

or get rid of unnecessary electric equipment (electric windows,central locking,interior lights etc )
hopefully drop the amount of leccy equipment to 1 per fuse and use the correct rated fuses
for that equipment.

OR .....

Is it as simple as ....
a leccy equipment only shows a certain amount of resistance® and as the
voltage(V) is at constant 12v so the current (I) drawn will not change even if the fuses
are a little higher than its meant to be . I = V/R
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Berichtdoor Rossy » Zo Dec 17, 2006 12:11 pm

You can use the original R-9 fuse rating because they are all lower compared to the 19.
Unless the fuses blow very fast, there won't be any problems.
If the fuses blow very vast you may use slightly heavvier fuses.
Some of the wiring need rerouting while they are combined on the 19.
But maybe it isn't neccesary to reroute at all.
It depends on the connections on the A-pillar.
Just use your multimeter and/or good electrical diagrams to find out the positions of the pins.

Antonio.
Je hoeft geen elf te zijn om een 11 te rijden _O^
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Berichtdoor schakal » Zo Dec 17, 2006 3:13 pm

Rossy schreef:You can use the original R-9 fuse rating because they are all lower compared to the 19.
Unless the fuses blow very fast, there won't be any problems.
If the fuses blow very vast you may use slightly heavvier fuses.
Some of the wiring need rerouting while they are combined on the 19.
But maybe it isn't neccesary to reroute at all.
It depends on the connections on the A-pillar.
Just use your multimeter and/or good electrical diagrams to find out the positions of the pins.
Antonio.


what do you mean by the positions of the pins mate ??? :roll:
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Berichtdoor Rossy » Di Dec 19, 2006 10:43 pm

The wires go into a connnector.
This connector is connected to an other connector with also wires in in.
Inside this connectors are pins and in the other clamps to make connections between the wires.
That is what I mean with the position of the pins in the connector.
The positions of the pins and clamps have to match to make the right connexion and the right part work

Antonio.
Je hoeft geen elf te zijn om een 11 te rijden _O^
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Berichtdoor schakal » Wo Dec 20, 2006 2:51 am

thats what i hoped you meant :D
otherwise i would be even more confused :?

are you any good with multimeter than ??
if so can you give me some basic tips on how to trace what ??
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Berichtdoor Rossy » Wo Dec 20, 2006 9:53 pm

Just set the switch at 20 volts, find a good ground to place the black wire and take the red wire to find out which pin is active when one function is in use (i.e. the rear defroster).
The meter will give a readout when the pin is active.
I recommend to use a digital multimeter.
This because when you wire up incorrect, the meter is reading negative current instead of blowing.
You can have one for under £ 10,00.

Antonio.
Je hoeft geen elf te zijn om een 11 te rijden _O^
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Berichtdoor schakal » Do Dec 21, 2006 8:52 pm

Rossy schreef:Just set the switch at 20 volts, find a good ground to place the black wire and take the red wire to find out which pin is active when one function is in use (i.e. the rear defroster).
The meter will give a readout when the pin is active.
I recommend to use a digital multimeter.
This because when you wire up incorrect, the meter is reading negative current instead of blowing.
You can have one for under £ 10,00.

Antonio.


thank ,
its a good job you gave rear defroster as an example btw !!!
say equipment with 2 wires (1 earth and 1 live , i.e : indicators ,rear defroster, stop lights , locking solenoid , headlights ,fog lights etc )
does it really matter which wire is the
earth and which is the live when i swap the r9 connectors to the
r19 loom ???
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Berichtdoor Rossy » Do Dec 21, 2006 11:16 pm

There is just a live wire because the ground is a screw or nut in the back of the car somewhere in the trunk.

Antonio.
Je hoeft geen elf te zijn om een 11 te rijden _O^
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Berichtdoor schakal » Do Dec 21, 2006 11:24 pm

Rossy schreef:There is just a live wire because the ground is a screw or nut in the back of the car somewhere in the trunk.

Antonio.


yes it is for the rear defroster .

but i am on about the headlights ,solenoids and other stuff with actually 2 wires going to them .
i know on a motor changing the earth to live will make the motor go
opposite way around .
but what about lights ?? that would not matter would it ??
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Berichtdoor Rossy » Vr Dec 22, 2006 12:33 am

The earth of the front lights is also a screw or nut attached to the front fascia of the car.
The 2 live wires are 1 for low beam and 1 for high beam.

Antonio.
Je hoeft geen elf te zijn om een 11 te rijden _O^
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Berichtdoor schakal » Zo Dec 24, 2006 4:13 pm

after messing with the big spagetti bundle of r19 16v
wires for days i finally come to my senses that
this is the stupid way of doing the conversion :oops:

luckily i never touched or chopped and wires in the r9 loom .

so now the plan is to leave the r9 dashboard/main loom alone
and just use the r19 16v engine loom and mate this
with the wires from r9 engine loom in the engine bay .
(alternator,ignition, starter,various sensor etc )


and than mount the r19 16v fuel tank and wire it with a live feed .
just 2 questions here though :roll:

1- there is a relay for the fuel pump in the aux relay box on the r19
and this comes with the r19 engine loom .
do i wire the live from this with a direct 12v from the battery ???

2- (stupid question:( )
do the engine sensors(i.e: knock sensor) on a EFI system (r19 16v )have live feeds ???
or do they just send signals to the ECU without the need of any current ???
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Berichtdoor Rossy » Zo Dec 24, 2006 6:48 pm

I can't help you with these questions.
Maybe the folks at RTC can help you.

Antonio.
Je hoeft geen elf te zijn om een 11 te rijden _O^
--------------------------------------------------------
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Berichtdoor schakal » Zo Dec 24, 2006 7:24 pm

Rossy schreef:I can't help you with these questions.
Maybe the folks at RTC can help you.

Antonio.


will post it there too ,cheers rossy
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